Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Label Queen. I am your host, James Aguiar, and I am so thrilled that you keep coming back. You keep listening, you keep giving me feedback, and you tell me when it's really boring or when you really love something. So I do appreciate the feedback. And something I've never asked for in I've been listening to so many podcasts is I've never asked you to leave a review, like, and subscribe. All of the things that help build this would be so nice and really important to keep it going. So I do appreciate that. So if you have a minute, give a. Like, give a review.
Anything helps. So thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaking about podcasts, I started this podcast for two reasons. One is I'm often traveling and I have a very long commute. So I was listening to podcasts and they get me through, and it's a. It's something that I never expected.
But as I was driving, listening to podcasts, listening to other people, I thought, why am I not doing this? Everybody in the planet has one. So that's why I started to do it. And then it became something else. It really was about all of the people that I know, some that I don't, many that I don't, who do so many interesting things in their lives that are not the thing that you think they're known for or what their career is.
So it became Label Queen because it's really about the labels we put on ourselves.
Now, of course, I am in fashion. I inhabit the land of fashion. But it's really not a fashion podcast, per se.
I think that's a jumping off style filters into everything that I do.
However, the idea that we can be so many different things, that we do pivot all the time, that we do make changes as we get older. If we have the energy, if we have the passion, if we have the drive, we are still inventing, reinventing. And this ass has been reinvented so many times, I think I've lost track. And it will continue to be reinvented. So anyway, that's the genesis. That's the reason I thank you. Thank you.
And this season we have some great, great guests, and I just hope you come along for the ride. So thank you all very much. Speaking of podcasts, I wanted to point out a few that I really, really love. And maybe if you listen to this, you can be like, oh, it's a little bit of that. It's a little bit of that.
So the first few that come to mind are juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald, which is, you know, pop culture. And she loves a little True Crime and Housewives and all of that Bravo stuff. However, I'm not so sure about her politics. We're going to leave that one to the side.
But it's, it's a fun, juicy thing. She gets a lot of things right, she gets a lot of things wrong. It's, it's just a fun listen and her sheer determination of putting them out two times, three times a week is pretty admirable. So that's one. And I think kind of the pop culture is really where I was like, you know, I like talking about pop culture. So she's, she's a one of them. Good hang with Amy Poehler. Just fun, you know, talking to mostly her friends.
It's seemingly like there is not one person on the planet that does, does not like Amy Poehler. And there's a good reason anyway, she's just a lot of fun to listen to. None of these are really kind of secrets.
Critics at large from the New Yorker.
One of my all time favorite podcasts. I was turned onto it by a friend. I actually went to a live podcast taping at the Y last week and that's Nomi Fry, Vincent Cunningham and Alex Schwartz, who are staff writers for the New Yorker and give a really, really interesting take on culture of the moment. And it's not just film criticism or theater or television. It's a lot about what's happening. And so, yeah, very much enjoy that one.
And then, let's see. Oh, I'm listening. Of course, you know, you have to get throw some true crime in there. So there's a lot of true crime that I listen to. It gets very dark and that's why I kind of balance it all with the pop culture and the comedy. So that is my shout out to the podcast that I'm listening to. I'm sure there's more and we'll talk about them going forward.
Anyway, let's talk about a little pop culture.
So I have noticed and I'm sure you have as well if you watch these things.
I think we have the term cottage wrong.
So when I was growing up or how I still think of a cottage is a1room Ms. Marple, Agatha Christie writing a novel in the English countryside. Maybe there's two windows, one of those double Dutch doors, stone floor. Maybe there's a kettle in the fireplace. I don't know. That to me is a cottage. There's a lot of wildflowers around and it's just kind of quaint and I think that's the word that comes to mind is quaint and just, you know, charming. So that to me is a cottage.
Now, there are two shows that reference cottages pretty heavily.
The first being Heated Rivalry.
I'm going to the cottage. One of the characters says the Cottage now is literally out of Architectural Digest. Probably one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen. Glass walls, hot tubs, incredible views, gourmet kitchen, chef's kitchen, all of the kitchen things that you want, just perfectly perfect. Perfect.
Not a cottage, but they call it a cottage. And then if you're watching Bridgerton, much of the action, the action takes place in a place called my cottage, which is basically a manor house, complete with a staff called the Crab Trees. And it is probably, I don't know, a 14 bedroom estate, but it is literally called my cottage. So we need to come together to really define what is a cottage. So that's just been on my mind. And I will say the heated Rivalry cottage is, I think it's in Canada, somewhere remotely in Canada, but it's on Airbnb now, so you can rent that cottage.
Anyway, let's get that definition correct, please.
All right, here are my highs and lows of the week. So I have been watching, of course, well, a couple of things Ryan Murphy related. And I have a real issue with Ryan Murphy.
I feel like I'm always tricked, like, oh, this is going to be good. And then I watch it and I'm like, is this good?
And I have to kind of ask, keep asking myself. And then I always end up like, this sucks. Right? Am I wrong? But the stuff keeps getting made. And there are two things on right now.
The Beauty, starring Ashton Kutcher. And we're gonna talk about that. And American love story, the JFK Jr. Carolyn Bessette story. All right, so let's break those two things down.
The beauty is a hot mess and it is literally stolen from Demi Moore's the Substance.
It is an amalgamation of all of those Ryan Murphy things. Body horror, body dysmorphia, self loathing, which I think permeates probably 99 of his work.
It does touch on some pretty fun things, basically, like any beauty trend that people would hop on at the cost of whatever. And there are some fun kind of twists in how this beauty might affect you. The side effects, as it were. But again, terribly written, ham fisted dialogue acting that is way over the top. And I kind of love these shows where you're. Where you're like, wow, that person's pretty good. Do they actually know they're in this or there's just. It's so uneven and inconsistent.
But the, you know, the squishy gore of it all is kind of fun. So whatever, it sucks, but it's fun to watch.
American Love Story, Carolyn Bessette and JFK Jr. I'm actually enjoying this. Not because it's well written, however, it is reminding me of a time when I lived in New York and the 90s.
I think they got it so right. I think the look of it, the Tribeca ness of it all, all the locations from Indochine to the Odeon to all of these places that are still there look so great. I think the early photos really were disastrous of her look and I think they got that all together. Her hair color is right, the clothing looks right.
So it's just really, really beautiful to look at. And it is a love story. And it just brings me right back to those. Those times. And I remember seeing JFK Jr. A lot in that time period because he would literally ride his bike. I was working at Bergdorf's, he would pull in on his bike and get his keels, which was on the main floor and. And yes, he was a superstar. Anyway, I am enjoying that, but it's not great, but I am enjoying it. What I really am enjoying, and this just debuted a couple about a week and a half ago, so I don't know where it's going. But I will say I really enjoyed the tone is DTF St. Louis with David Harbour and Jason Bateman, Linda Cardellini, all people that I really like as actors. And this is really fun. Set in 2017. I'm not sure why, because that time difference is kind of subtle, but it actually does make a difference. As we know in terms of technology, it's a bit of a juicy crime. We don't know where it's going.
I think it captures middle aged malaise beautifully. I think it captures suburbia perfectly.
And that black comedy, which is so subtle, this is not Laugh out loud. This is one that you really have to watch to get it and kind of if you know, you know, type of thing. But I am enjoying this, so I am going to recommend it.
Unknowing of what's to come because I've only watched one episode, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. All right, now it's time to get to my guest. This is so crazy because if it's one thing fashion loves, it's a secret.
If it's one thing fashion loves, it's. You can't have it if it's one thing fashion loves. It's. Oh, I know, but you don't. Or I can get there, but you can't. It's kind of like that exclusivity. It's really very interesting. So my guest today, in true label queen spirit, started his career as a dancer in Canada. So, you know, he's nice.
He went on to Broadway to have leading roles in Mary Poppins and Jekyll and Hyde and some others.
And he has a very interesting, notably kind of rare trivia fact, if it's one thing you want to do in life, is you want to be a trivia question.
My guest today is known for being the last actor to ever portray the Phantom in Phantom of the Opera in the long, long, long running show Phantom of the Opera.
He has since gone on to do something very interesting within fashion, specifically with Ralph Lauren, and we're going to talk all about that.
My guest today is the trivia worthy, secretive. If you know, you know, Laird McIntosh. Stay tuned.
Laird, welcome.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: I'm really happy to have you because there's. First of all, there's a lot to talk about, but I would need to go back a little bit further to where you were, to where you are now, how you got there, kind of the why you got there and kind of what's in the future. So it's a lot. Right, I know, I understand. But you started.
You were born in Canada, is that correct?
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Yes, that's correct. I was born in Calgary, Alberta, Western Canada.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Okay, so that means you're nice, right?
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Fortunately, yes.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: But Canadians are nicer.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: That's the reputation.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: But is it true?
[00:13:59] Speaker B: No, it means, in my case, it means you keep everything bottled up until you explode. And when you explode, it's a terrible thing. You know, apologies have to be made.
Yeah, there's a nice facade, niceness. I don't know. I always, I always was very.
Took a lot of pride in thinking of myself as someone who is nice. And then you. You realize that being nice isn't always the best thing for everyone.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: Right. You know, but as someone who's not nice, I don't know, you're like the
[00:14:30] Speaker B: best person in the world.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Are you kidding me? I'm not. I'm not. I am direct. I know what I want. And that can come off as kind of like, you know, dismissive or cold or whatever.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: But I do think that there's a niceness in that, in that I'm not gonna waste your time. Yes, we're not wasting time.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: There's a difference between nice and good, being good and being nice and you're good. And I try to be good, too. And as I've gotten older, I real.
Don't be nice all the time. Don't try to make it your priority just to be nice, you know, to be liked all the time.
But, yes, probably a lot of that comes out of being from Canada.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Okay, all right.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: National identity of niceness.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: So you started your career as a dancer, Is that correct?
[00:15:11] Speaker B: That is correct. Yes. I.
Well, just outside of Calgary, where I grew up, there was a wonderful fine arts school in Banff, Alberta, in the Rocky Mountains. And I went there in a theater program right after high school. But while I was there, I was meet. They had a dance program and an opera program, and I was meeting all of those people, and I kind of had one of those epiphanies where I'd never seen ballet before in my life, like, never. And I fell in love with the way it looked, and I fell in love with the people.
And, you know, I was one of those kids who would just go, I'm going to do this. And I went up to the instructor and. And said, how do I like, you know, can I audition as a dancer? And if you're a guy, if you're a young man, you're in classical ballet. Yeah, you're in. They don't even. I wouldn't have even had to audition, literally. But, you know, I went into the studio with her, and she had me, like, kind of turn my feet out and do some plies.
And the next thing I knew, she said, well, you know, if you want to come in two weeks to our school in Montreal, you can come because there's 200 girls and 15 guys.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Amazing.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: And, yeah, I got into it. And a couple years later, I was. I was in the National Ballet of Canada. And I had a brief career in ballet. And one of many regrets that I have about life is that I didn't stay with it longer or have the kind of mind that you have when you're older.
I mean, at 18 years old, I was like a 13 and a half year old. So naive and didn't really. Couldn't see the bigger picture.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Anyway, it's the best. When I was that age 13, maybe 14, I auditioned for Othello.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: Thinking I would get the role of Othello. That's delusional.
Well, that is a.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: Not necessarily, but I got a part.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: I got to hold a spear. I got to, you know, give some, you know, whatever little monologue of, you know, announcing Something.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: Well, I bet you would have been a better Othello than the person who got the part. Cause I remember in some of my, you know, high school productions not getting the part also. And now I think, see, you should. I should have played that part.
[00:17:29] Speaker A: All right, then you moved to the city, to Manhattan, and you, you were on Broadway, you did performances in Mary Poppins, Jekyll and Hyde. And I'm gonna let you qualify this, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you are a trivia question, slash answer.
Are you ready?
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: This is what Wikipedia says. And by the way, I don't do a lot of research.
[00:17:58] Speaker B: Wow, that sounds like good research.
[00:18:00] Speaker A: It's not good. It is not good. If you're hosting a podcast and you're interviewing people, doing the least amount of research is not a good thing. Anyway, your Wikipedia says that you were the last actor to perform the role of the Phantom in the long running Broadway production of the Phantom of the Opera. Is that true?
[00:18:22] Speaker B: That is true. Yeah.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: That is a trivia pie. Like, that's a good thing to have.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Yes. That's going to be a wonderful little feather in my cap forever. That is the feather in my cap. I mean, it's also was like one of those kind of.
It's a memory I'll absolutely never forget. So, yeah, after a long time, I was in Canadian theater for about 20 years. I had gone in between Broadway and the ballet days when I was a kid. Well, I ended up in Toronto, got into theater there, finally came down to the States, worked at the Stratford Festival up in Canada. But yes, I was in the Broadway production of Phantom for about six years. I played a role called Andre, one of the, for those who know the show, one of the managers of the, of the Paris Opera. And it's a beautiful role. But I also covered the Phantom and sometimes a couple times I got the role as what they would call an interim Phantom.
So, you know, I was never actually the guy, but I did have my name on the marquee, or not the marquee, the poster for a month or two at a time when they had a new Phantom coming in and another one leaving and the time didn't sync up and I got. They had, by the equity, you know, the, the union rules, they had to have somebody in the role. The understudies couldn't just cover someone that wasn't there. Got it. So I got the part. So that. So I get to say that I played the Phantom on Broadway, but I did play it about 200 times on Broadway.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: All right.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: And.
And then there was this classic kind of theater moment when the show was closing, which was very, I think, very emotional and sad for news. It was, it was news. It was. I had a day of the show. Closing was definitely international news, at least in some small way. There was a little caption at the corner of every newspaper around the world,
[00:20:21] Speaker A: practically, because how long did it run and when did it premiere?
80s, right?
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Goodness. Yeah. It was premiered in 86. 87, I think it was 88. It was. 87 was London or 86 was London. 87 or 88 was Broadway, and 89 was the Toronto production.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: Okay, I'm gonna let you finish the story and then I'll tell you my Phantom story. But.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: Well, the, the end of the story is that our, our wonderful guy who was, Was the lead, who played the Phantom and was, you know, it is an absolute. It's a sprint and a marathon all combined in one. I mean, doing eight shows a week. The role is really, really demanding and very exhausting.
And he was doing everything he could to, like, do every last show and be on.
He had some. He had vocal, you know, fatigue and just, Just could not as much as he wanted to and tried to sing. And I think what happened was so I, I had already left the show, actually. I'd been in and out and. Because I had left to go do a production of the, the tour of the My Fair lady that was at Lincoln Center. If you, if you saw that, they did a big tour of that, and I went out and played Henry Higgins and that. And then when I came back, they announced that Phantom was closing. I went back into the show for a while and was doing what I did before covering and, and went on a few times, and then my time left. I think they extended once. So, you know, I hadn't been signed on for that last month, so I had left and I was upstate literally in the deli, like having a Reuben sand. And my agent called and said like three days before the show was closing and said, you know, you're not going to believe this, but they, they're calling you to come back and maybe give a little coverage for our lead guy. So I was like, okay. I thought I would literally just be standing in the wings in case they needed me. And they put me on for the, the third to last show, then the second to last. And then they just kind of came up and said, you know, we're.
We're just going to. We're going to keep it like this and Put you on. And, and we're just. They had to make kind of an executive decision. I think it was obviously heartbreaking for our main guy. So I always like to sort of have that in my story because it was absolutely a dream for me. But it was, you know, a little bit at his expense. But anyway, he was extremely gracious about it and, and so, yeah, I went on and it was. The last show was. They didn't even sell tickets to it. It would if the entire audience was cast members who'd been in the show in the past. The, the producer, Cameron McIntosh, Andrew Lloyd Webber, the composer, the. Everybody who had ever been connected with the show. So it was, it was a very, you know, kind of high stakes show.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's a totally different kind of energy as well.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: Yes. On A Wing and a Prayer. I, it was sort of like I was extremely calm about it because I just thought it's. I know it's going to go well. I just know, you know, I'm not gonna mess it up tonight. And fortunately it did. You know, I think everybody in the cast had a wonderful show. It was so bittersweet because it was like, aside from the cast, it was a huge family, the crew, the orchestra, the front of house. And it was an old fashioned show that was not automated the way shows are now. Had the biggest orchestra on Broadway, probably the biggest cast, the biggest crew. I mean, it was just, you know, huge.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Huge.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Huge. Yeah. 35 years. So. And it was, it. My wife was in the show off and on for almost 20 years. So it was like really, it's just a massive part of people's lives and your life. Yeah, I was, I. Because I did it up in Toronto for six, six or seven years as well. And I was super proud of it and I, I'm really honored that I got to be in that show. It's like the best thing I ever did. So. Yeah, that was Phantom on Broadway.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: You did not poison this guy.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: I did not poison him.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: That's what I would have done.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: I don't think I did at least. Yes. That coffee that I brought him every day, I don't know, it might have had something in it.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: I'm sure he's listening to this.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: Yes. Right.
But yeah, it was one of those Broadway stories. And then James, I thought, this is it. My career has. Just when I thought maybe it was my career was winding down, I thought suddenly I've got this new lease and you know, I had, I truly had 24 hours of, of fame. And you know, I Even had like the. The news agencies up in Canada, like, interviewing me for their morning shows. And I thought, this is going to be the thing that really changes my career. And then in classic Broadway fashion, it was just immediate crickets after that, that showbiz kid. Showbiz, you know, so there's. There's absolutely no. That's one of the things that I've always also found apropos of, like, getting into, you know, you would not think that going from the theater business to selling vintage clothes would be a way to find more security.
[00:25:30] Speaker A: Right?
[00:25:30] Speaker B: But one thing that is, is a real truth about Broadway is like, you can be playing the Phantom of the Opera one day in this highly publicized show and ending and performance, and the next day I couldn't get a job to save my life.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: It's crazy. I mean, I. I joke it's showbiz, but it kind of is. You can win an Academy Award and get, you know, have a shitty film, the next whatever or no film. So I. I saw Phantom in probably previews with Michael Crawford and Sarah, right? Oh, yeah, Sarah Brightman. But this is what I remember.
Claudette Colbert was in the audience. Now, Claudette Colbert was old when I was young, so she must have been, I don't know, in her 90s, I think she died in 96. So the math, kind of maths. But that's how long ago I saw it and how long it ran.
And that was. That's what I remember. But it was definitely. It's a Broadway spectacle and there's no doubt in my mind it will come back. That guy that did, you know, redid Sunset Boulevard, that, like, uses cameras and strips all the costumes away. That is totally going to happen.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: That might. And I also think equally what might happen is that they will bring back a. The original production in a more. I think one of the hopes with the Broadway production from the producer side was that they could streamline it, which is what they did in London and. And, you know, cut things down. Broadway shows now, I think any producer, if they could, they would have a cast of two people and a crew of four and a band of one guy on a synthesizer. And, you know, that those days of the mega musical, you know, well, it wasn't necessarily everyone's cup of tea, but Phantom did, I think, present something really special in the panoply of Broadway shows.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: It's definitely coming back. All right, so you referenced. And I'm going to hopscotch forward. You know, I live, work, breathe in fashion.
And I said in my intro, what Fashion really loves is something that they can't have a secret if, you know, you know, quality to the industry.
And one day I was, I don't know, scrolling through Instagram and I saw this kind of cryptic, world's largest Ralph Lauren collection, vintage, in Kingston, New York. And I thought, what is this?
Then I did a little bit of research and I was like, how do you even get into this? Then I started seeing more, and then I was like, I have to get in there.
So how did the Ralph Lauren connection slash, collection happen for you? And then we're gonna get into why it's in Kingston, New York. So how did it start?
[00:28:20] Speaker B: Well, you're right, James. And you were one of the first people who scoped me out.
And you did that beautiful piece on me already in your reels.
Yes. And you and Mark came bounding in. And I'm smiling because I'm looking at your wonderful threads today, both the tweeds and that beautiful vintage sweater from 87, I think it is 86, something like that. I mean, you are favorites of mine.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Part historian of this, but I want to know where the. Because it is a bit of an obsession. It's an obsessive collection.
So when did the doors of Ralph Lauren open to you? What was that?
[00:29:00] Speaker B: Well, now we're going to go all the way back to Calgary, Alberta. So when I was a teenager, the first job that I ever had was in a really beautiful polo store in my hometown of Calgary. Now, I could never have clocked this at all as a kid, but Calgary is a little bit like Houston or somewhere in Texas. There's oil in Alberta. And so there was a little bit of.
[00:29:21] Speaker A: There's money.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: Wealth that could.
They opened a Polo.
[00:29:25] Speaker A: This is why you're nice. You say wealth, I say there's money.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: There's money.
There has been money often, you know, the oil business, I think, has had all sorts of ups and downs and recessions and anyway, blah, blah, blah. Yes. When I was. And what is absolutely crazy about this right now is that I got this job and I was like 15, you know, and I worked in this. This polo store. I remember asking.
It was across the street from my high school. And I used to wander into this shop and speak to the manager and just kind of look at the stuff. And I loved it. I loved it.
And I think I asked him, you know, could I ever work in the store? And he got me this job. They, you know, so.
But just yesterday I spoke on the phone with the original owner of the polo store in Calgary, and I haven't spoken to him. I saw him once five years ago, but I've had no lengthy conversation with him. I mean, I talked to him for an hour and a half and how time flies. I mean, of course it's 40 years later. He was probably 35 at the time and I was 15 and you know, do the math. It's like. But he, he, he was such a wonderful boss and the shop had such a beautiful atmosphere. It was in the days when the Ralph Lauren stores, at least in Canada, they were franchised. Right. So there must have been some kind of uniform thing to the way the design had to be executed.
But it had a very individual lot of character to the store. And so that was just a part of my, my youth growing up. I mean, I was so fortunate that I had that because it, it introduced me to a lot of notions of, of beautiful style and.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And American style. And so it imprinted on you at that age? Oh, yes.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: So, yes, that's.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: I think what I didn't really understand is it wasn't something like, well, I'm not doing Phantom anymore, I'm not doing Broadway, I'm going to kind of pick up this, this Ralph Lauren thing. It has been in your DNA since 15, even probably before you were a ballet dancer.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: Yes, it's been before then I can remember around. So even four or five years before I got the job in the shop. We had a dear American friend who used to come up every summer and visit with us.
Wonderful guy who I also am in touch with still, of course, named Dick Horner. We called him Flash Horner. He was always flashing around town and he.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: Careful of what you.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: Careful what I say. He was always racing around town, not flashing around. Flash doesn't have anything to do with.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: Hey, got any trench coats?
[00:32:00] Speaker B: No, he was just, he was, yeah, he was a speedy guy and he was like a stylemeister, you know, this is the. When he came and stayed with us for the first time, I was like, what are these tassel loafers? What's a pair of, you know, regions? What are. And, and he was wearing all this polo clothing and he got me my first button down polo shirt. So that's, that's when it began. But yeah, it's been a long time. I mean, there was a time like in the 90s, I think, where I, I have to admit I wasn't as interested in it as witnessed by the fact that I can vividly remember taking some of these beautiful like hand knit sweaters. I had a sweater like that actually That I. That I took to the Goodwill, I thought, I'm not going to wear this anymore. And I think my polo shop has been my effort to find all those pieces all these years later. But in the 2000s, and especially with the advent of the Internet, anybody who's an inveterate collector as I am and always have been, suddenly woke up to this idea that, oh, my God, I can be looking for polo stuff in England and all over the world.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Okay, I'm going to stop you there, because you bring up something really interesting.
You woke up, you're like, I can get this. I can collect it.
And I think that that's the most important thing, not only about fashion, but certainly vintage fashion, because you are collecting it when it is available, there are resources to get it. And when I first met you, I said, this is the smartest thing, because Ralph Lauren, as an American designer who's well into his 80s now, isn't going to be around much longer. Right. And you think of these. These icons of fashion, Karl Lagerfeld, other people that we have lost who you think are always gonna be there making clothes, producing, doing shows.
And as an American fashion designer, Ralph Lauren stands the test of time, literally, and is as prolific as he was probably starting in the 70s. Correct. So there is this wealth of inventory out there.
When did the collection or the collecting begin?
[00:34:12] Speaker B: The collecting really began probably when I came down to the States in 2009. I remember getting really charged up again about Ralph Lauren.
They had a line from about 2004-14 called rugby that I really loved. That kind of reminded me a lot of the 80s polo.
Yeah. So I started really collecting it for myself and really looking for vintage pieces then.
[00:34:42] Speaker A: And you were doing it for yourself?
[00:34:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Collecting for myself. And then what happened, James, was the pandemic destroyed the theater business, as it did many industries.
And so we were off work, and I said to my wife, I'm gonna, you know, clear out some of my closet and sell a few pieces. And this was music to her ears because of the closet. Like, she had a sliver of clothes.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: Ha.
[00:35:06] Speaker B: There. And I had all these tweed jackets. And I sold a few things just selling, like, on online, like, on ebay. And then I said, oh, I think I made 50 bucks on that. I think maybe while we're not working, I'll just start to buy things not for myself, but to resell.
And that was the seed that became. Then the show came back. But then I was really still collecting. I had left ebay. You know, I wasn't doing that anymore. I was just selling. At some point I put something up. I had my own Instagram account, Laird Macintosh, for my theater work. And somewhere in that time I started an Instagram account that was like a Ralph Lauren thing. And I was sort of anonymous on it. It was just to unabashedly share my Ralph Lauren stuff. I was a bit self conscious of putting tons of it on my theater thing. So I had this Polo account. And then through that account, I must have put something up and said, this is for sale. Somebody bought it. And then they said, well, how do I pay? And I said, well, are you comfortable sending a total stranger, you know, $500 on in PayPal? And they just went, yeah, sure, no problem. And then I went, ding. Like, you know, there was. Because I was sending it to Scotland and all around Australia.
And so when then Phantom Closing was kind of like another pandemic in our lives, you know, because it was such a definitive sort of bookend. And I felt so much like I'd been, I've been so fortunate to do a lot of the things in theater I really wanted to do. Maybe it was just a feeling of wanting a little bit of a change after 35 years, but it was also kind of like, oh, I'm. I'm. If I can't do more of the same or even more higher, then I, I don't know if I want to exactly continue in it. So yeah, so I, at that point I was really buying like women's pieces, jackets that don't fit me. I could buy stuff without having to inquire, like, what's the size? Will it fit me? If I saw something great, I could just buy it. If I'm in a secondhand shop and saw something really good, I would just grab it.
And then, yes, then eventually that led to we, we moved up to Rhinebeck, New York, right across from where we are in Kingston now. I looked for, about.
When I decided to bite the bullet, I looked for about five seconds in Manhattan. But of course the space that I have here in Kingston literally would have been 20 grand a month or something in Manhattan. So I couldn't even consider it and was too terrified to think of that. But I found this wonderful space here in Kingston, big kind of loft like space, which is, I envisioned that I'd be able to stack, build these racks that would stack up to put all the jackets on. And I thought, I'm gonna do it. As I got closer to doing it, I kept thinking to myself, I can't believe that no one has ever done a vintage Ralph Lauren shop in America. There's one or two in Japan, and maybe there's one or two. Yeah, that's all I know about. And even getting to the point where I thought, I've got to do this before Ralph Lauren does.
[00:38:10] Speaker A: Right.
[00:38:10] Speaker B: And.
[00:38:11] Speaker A: Okay, so I'm going to interrupt you there because you bring up so many points. First of all, the pandemic is our. I truly think this.
I know it's a horrible time, but it's almost like our depression. You know, people who live through it, hopefully and got through it, will always have that marker of a time and place that defined who we are before and after.
So it's very interesting that that would be sort of the defining point for you.
Secondly, being brave enough to work outside of what is normally expected.
You know, I'm going to open up this really studio.
It is not accessible by. You can't just walk in. It is not a storefront.
So you have to make an appointment, which I love.
And it is not a vintage store in the sense that it's not a store. To me, it's really an atelier. It is a studio.
And when you walk in there, you get not only the most incredible array of quality Ralph Lauren, but you get your expertise, which is also that of a sartorial expert, a menswear expert, a tailoring expert, and an expert on Ralph Lauren.
[00:39:33] Speaker B: Well, that's. That's very kind of you.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: It's true. And you have an encyclopedic knowledge of the brand.
Has the team at Ralph Lauren reached out to you? Because now it is being discovered by influencers. And I love these reels because they're like, I got on the train, I trekked, you know, two hours. I like, come on, that's not that far. But, you know, you got on the train, went up, and people are documenting their experience and coming to see you, which I just think is so fantastic. And these are influencers with huge followings. So it's really exploded. Has the team at Ralph Lauren been to visit you? Have they reached out to you and have they offered you sort of what you said, like, let's make this a business now?
[00:40:21] Speaker B: Yes, to all of the above, except, wait, the last part. Yes, let's make this a business. Them.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: Well, they. They, Ralph. They.
Some of the team have come, some are coming up shortly.
I have a date set with some of them to come up again, and they have. My contact with. With Ralph Lauren Co. Has been wonderful. They've been very gracious.
And I was very lucky to get, you know, have some time prior to the, the Milan show. That was a month ago or so with John Virage, who's, you know, one of the, the real forward facing, I mean, I dare say a real star at Ralph Lauren right now and one of the bosses, you know, at Ralph Lauren. Trying to think of what the right way to say that is, you know, working of course very closely with Ralph and under Ralph, of course. But, but, and so that has been really very fun for me because from the beginning I always thought I'm going to be very careful to try and, you know, do this little enterprise as something that's always very respectful to Ralph Lauren. I mean, first of all, I'm a fan and I absolutely love the company and I love what Ralph has done and I would have no business if it wasn't for Ralph Lauren. I mean, obviously these are his things, you know, so, so I always want to be very careful that I'm, I'm gracious and open to the company and they've been absolutely lovely with me so far. So great. Yeah.
And what was the other part of that question?
[00:42:04] Speaker A: I told you I won't. Well, have you, you've, they've come to visit you, you've talked about kind of doing this as a business with or adjacent to them.
For me it's the appreciation. And what I know about the Ralph world is there is such an appreciation for taste or style, for detail, for the depth. And this is a long history fashion. And fashion is probably not the right word, but clothing style that has stood the test of time and what it's always interesting to me. This podcast is called Label Queen. There are many labels within the Ralph Lauren umbrella, from Polo to Rugby to Double RL to Black Label, all of those things. Do you collect all of those labels?
[00:43:00] Speaker B: Yes, I mean, I try to. And you're absolutely right to say that some of those labels aren't around anymore. Black Label rug, they're no longer. But of course, as soon as something is discontinued, it immediately gets sought after and collected. And as you pointed out at the beginning, rarity is something that people really desire. I mean, Ralph Lauren Co. Has done a great job at democratizing the sense of the understanding of the company, if that's the right way to put it, of really wanting to make it available to everyone.
And.
But there is something inside of every individual that's human nature that you want something that's rare and special.
So ironically vintage clothing. Now people are coming to me who could easily be going to the Rhinelander mansion in New York and spending their money. And they're coming because they want to find something that's, you know, that's really rare and.
But I know what I was going to say, too. You were being very complimentary about me being an expert in Ralph's history and in clothing and style. Well, I can tell you that there's nothing like an amateur who's obsessed with something to fill yourself up with knowledge. Because my knowledge about it or my interest in it has sort of been a hard one. I've never worked for the company in New York, you know, but there's a lot of information out there that I had to really kind of dig to get. But I'm so interested in it that if I have any information, it's just because I've loved it so much and been so curious about it.
[00:44:46] Speaker A: It's great to hear. I mean, that is sort of, you know, an obsessive passion that leads to expertise, and it makes perfect sense. I have two questions before we call it a day.
The first being this is a little bit kind of off topic, but on topic.
I was thinking about it the other day. American designers, which we know and love, Bill Blass, Jeffrey Bean, Calvin Klein, to some degree, Donna Karan.
It seems that unlike European brands, Saint Laurent, Dior, Balmain, we can go on and on. There seems to be a longevity and a life host, the creators, the founding creators leaving or passing away.
American designers struggle with that, or the American public struggles with continuing a Jeffrey Bean, continuing a Perry Ellis or Bill Blass. Do you think that Ralph Lauren will continue long past Mr. Lauren passing away?
Will he give the reins to somebody else? Do you think the brand has legs to continue much like some of those European brands I referenced, or will it stay in this kind of moment of classic quality American style?
[00:46:13] Speaker B: Well, that's why I think it will continue. I think if any company, if any, I don't want to say brand that always seems like such a cynical kind of. It's a viewpoint or a philosophy or kind of ethos that Ralph Lauren espoused so much. And I think because his identity is so strong and always has been, and he's always maintained a very firm vision. And he.
Somebody said to me the other day, who works at the company, that Ralph has always said, I never want to be too hot. You know, I don't want to be too hot. I mean, right now he's so hot that you think, well, maybe the pendulum will swing back a little bit, but there's the identity is so firmly established, I think. And the identity is quality, and it is integrity. And I. One of the things that I see in the. My little shop is that people really respect Ralph Lauren, the man, and they respect the company, and they have a sense of that integrity. And, you know, when I worked in the store as a teenager, one of the philosophical taglines or bit of text they had, I'm not going to quote it exactly, but it was something like, there's a certain grace and beauty to living. It's not a constant race for what is next, rather an appreciation of what's come before.
It's a sense of integrity, quality, style.
They always said style, not fashion. That was Ralph Lauren's thing.
And that was an idea that they used to sell clothing that was new when I was selling it as a teenager.
Now it's 40, 50 years old. And it has become true for Ralph Lauren that the pieces that he made had such beautiful quality to them. I mean, this is. This is a tweed jacket from the 1970s.
They make a jacket now that is a updated version of this. You know, they call it the RL67.
And every single thing about this is sort of heirloom quality.
So people want that, but they also get that from Ralph Lauren. And I think they have done a very good job of. Of maintaining quality, but also of paying tribute always to. If they continue to pay tribute to what Ralph always was, I think they should do very well.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I mean, as someone who sat through many Ralph Lauren shows, right, the cinematic scope and the world that you get drawn into, even just. You don't even have to sit at the fashion show, Just walk by those windows of the mansion, and you are transported not only to a time and place, but to a sense of quality and tradition that is so lovely and so kind of quintessentially Ralph Lauren. So my last question, I'm sorry, is what has been the biggest surprise for you in not only opening the studio Thoroughbred, but kind of in this moment of where you are post Broadway, post pandemic and into this world. What's been the biggest surprise for you?
[00:49:35] Speaker B: The biggest surprise has been that a lint brush is your best friend.
No, I would say, well, when I got the space, I was biting my nails thinking, am I gonna be able to pay the lease here? I thought I would be able to film in there and put things up online and mail stuff to people. But the biggest surprise is, as you said earlier, people are coming. And a lot of them, for a lot of them, it is a Bit of a pilgrimage from the city or beyond.
But I'm amazed at how many people are. I'm amazed and delighted at how many people are coming into the shop because of course then they get to have the pieces in their hands they can try things on.
And I knew that there was a huge following for Ralph Lauren. I did not realize how huge it was.
So that's been the biggest surprise. I love it.
[00:50:29] Speaker A: I love it. Okay, so Laird, tell everybody, if you will allow them to come and visit you and see for firsthand, how do they get in touch with you and make an appointment and all of that.
[00:50:42] Speaker B: Well, anybody is welcome to come in. I. I don't. There's no allowing or not allowing. Absolutely.
[00:50:48] Speaker A: Well, you know, I don't know about that.
[00:50:51] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:50:52] Speaker A: Well, no, I. You know why I will tell you this? Because Mark, my husband, contacted you and he didn't back. And then I contacted you and said, oh, we're going on the Queen Mary and we have all these events.
And you were like.
And I was like, oh, that's how this.
[00:51:09] Speaker B: No, no, no. I'm so sorry.
There has been. Admittedly there has been a.
[00:51:16] Speaker A: You just got a little red.
[00:51:18] Speaker B: I'm red because there's been a. I'm looking. Searching for the word. An administrative hump to overcome, which I'm definitely still not over, which is that I do all of my communicating. If you want to book an.
You DM me on Instagram. Thoroughbred, thoroughbred New York.
And I am now spending morning and night trying to line up the appointments. But. But there's, There's. It's. I'm. I'm having to figure out how to manage it.
It's. It's been so. It's been busier than I was expecting. And of course there's conversations about timing. And then somebody cancels that appointment and put someone else in. Right. And so I, I apologize to anyone if I haven't got back to you there. You.
No, it's. There's no intention to.
You know, if somebody writes me and says I want to make a time, here's the thing. They need to know the shop is a bit busy and especially on weekends. So I am booking a week or two in advance now. And if you write me now and say, can I book a time in June? You have. The schedule is wide open. So, yeah. And I basically book sort of one hour appointments, but once people are in, they can stay longer. And I do think that people do like that they're in by appointment. Generally they have the shop to themselves and Because I'm not a storefront.
You're right. People do like that because it's part of the experience of. You kind of are like, where am I? And then you open the door and there's this big collection in there.
[00:52:46] Speaker A: Well, it's. It is a mystery. It's part museum, it's part store, it's part shop, it's part styling session. It's conversation. And. And it's really.
There's nothing like it.
[00:52:57] Speaker B: So thank you so much.
You get it. Completely.
[00:53:01] Speaker A: I get it. And I will say people are like, is it a vintage shop? And it's not. It's such a hard thing to say because, yes, it is, but it's not. And there's so much more that it's not like going into a vintage store and, oh, I'll get this. I'll get this. You get so much more out of the experience.
[00:53:20] Speaker B: Well, that's so nice. Well, I think because it did.
Because of my experience selling initially on Instagram, I knew there would be a response to a Ralph only thing, but it wasn't. It wasn't a. Something that I, you know, thought about from any sort of business standpoint. It simply came naturally out of my own. I was so laser focused on Ralph Lauren that I thought that's the only thing I could do. I wouldn't have dreamed of thinking, like, I'm going to sell, you know, Armani clothes or something. I wouldn't know a thing about them.
Yes. But if somebody does, it has. I'll tell you another thing. To answer your question, it has absolutely shown me, and this would apply to anything that anybody does, of course, and we've all heard this, but that specializing is. If you can offer something to people that is unique, hopefully, then that is something, you know, that. That is. That people want.
[00:54:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's so great. So, Laird, thank you so much.
[00:54:19] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:54:19] Speaker A: The story is fascinating.
The clothing is beautiful.
You are just a delight. And really, I urge anybody to make the pilgrimage.
So, Laird, thank you so much for joining.
[00:54:33] Speaker B: Thank you so much, James. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
[00:54:35] Speaker A: Have the best day.
[00:54:37] Speaker B: You've been one of my earliest supporters. Thank you so much.
[00:54:40] Speaker A: I love that. Thank you.
