Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Hello everyone and welcome back to Label Queen. All my Label Queens. Thank you so much for tuning in, for watching, for listening. And I always say if you are listening, watch, because I put a lot of imagery in to help support the podcast and things that I'm talking about and it just is a little bit of another layer of some fun.
Also, if you want to email me, the email is labelqueenpodmail.com and as always, this podcast is sponsored by no one yet. In the words of Meghan Markle yet. But by all means, if you want to sponsor me, kids, I am here.
Today is my. I'm going to do this a little bit. Well, it's kind of the same thing, but a little bit differently in that this is going to be a fashion heavy Fashion Week episode. I'm talking all things fashion. And a lot of people out there have said you don't talk a lot about fashion and you're such a fashion person. Well, that is true. And there's a reason that I don't, which was I just wanted to expand a little bit more. But what I find is style and fashion, of course, seep into everything that I do. And it's such an important part of the podcast, but it's not the only one. But today I did want to talk about the fashion industry. Now, I have been in this industry for a long time. I've been front row, I have been back row. I have been no row. I have been standing. I have been asked to leave. I've been asked to come back. I've been asked to leave again and come back. I have been humiliated.
I have been exalted. I have been excited. I have seen things that I never thought I would see. Fashion has really given me everything. It's given me carte blanche into a world that on paper, there's no good reason why I even exist. So while I love the industry, there's also things about it that are really challenging. But it's been a great ride and I wouldn't have it any other way. So, yes, the ins, the outs, the highs, the lows. We like to talk about the highs and lows around here. And normally I talk a lot about pop culture. This is sort of pop culture adjacent. But I do want to talk about some things that people always ask me about, which are what are my favorite fashion movies? And it's a question that comes up a lot and it's a good question. I like the question. And I started to think about it. Now, I did not do a huge deep dive into the actual most important parts of fashion history for this. These are things that kind of came to mind. And by all means, there are mountains more. You can write me and tell me what your favorite fashion movies are or not. But I wanted to go through my highs and lows of what I think a good fashion movie is. And some of these might be controversial anyways, so here we go. My worst fashion movie list. These are top five worst fashion movies. Again, let me know if you have some of yours. But here are mine. Number one, or I should say number five.
This is like one of those David Letterman top ten. Coming in at number five, it's Zoolander number two. Now we're going to get back to that. But it's so funny that they call this number two because it kind of is a number two. It just jumped the shark, as they say in entertainment. The fashion wasn't great, the story wasn't great, it wasn't funny, and it didn't have the same kick spark that the first one did, which is very fashion as well. You know, we've seen it, we've done it, we're over it. So at number five, Zoolander number two at number four. And sorry, I'm piling on, but any of the Sex and the City movies. First of all, these movies are terrible. They're insulting. Probably a predecessor to what happened with and just like that.
However, as far as fashion movies go, again, it just didn't work. It just seemed a little bit desperate and wrong. And at a certain point in your life, maybe you should start thinking about other things that have more importance than whatever the latest it bag is. So that's number four coming in at number three. For me, it's Clueless. Now, a lot of people like Clueless. I think it's a really fun movie. But I think the fact that fashion is just off. And I know that there's a lot of people that love it and it's kind of. They think of it as the. The quintessential 90s. I'm not sure I knew anybody that dressed like this. However, it does have a direct sort of correlation to Japanese street culture. And. And what are they called? Harajoki. What is it? Harajuku girls and that sort of Gwen Stefani era. So I. I get it in that sense, but I. I don't know. I just. I never saw that kind of style in school.
Certainly of course not when I was growing up. But I just. Something always seemed off about it. But I liked the movie. This next one's pretty interesting. Because it's not a movie, but it's the Gilded Age, which is on HBO now in its third season. People love it and I get it. I love it too. But what I found when I was kind of researching was there's a lot of controversy about the costuming for it. I happen to love it. I think it's kind of fun and colorful and beautiful. But there's a lot of historians that would highly disagree and they say it's off and wrong and not quite right. I do know they do a ton of research on this show, so I can't imagine it's that far off, but just comments of cheap fabrics and wrong patterns and certainly garish colors that would not have been worn in the Gilded Age. So I'm putting it on my worst just because of really what's out there. My last coming in at number one, worst fashion movies. This is going to be controversial beyond. I'm sorry, come for me, but let me explain. It is the Devil Wears Prada probably the quintessential fashion movie that most people love and reference. I think it's a great movie. Don't come for me. I've watched it probably 3,000 times. And if it's, if I get on a plane and it's not on, I. I just get up and leave. I don't even take the trip, so I hold it near and dear and it's, it's a movie that I love. The reason I'm putting it on my worst is because to me it represents the worst of what the fashion industry is.
And I don't know, I feel like the clothing, the time, this sort of Anna Wintour adjacent era of exclusion just sends the wrong message. And the idea that you have to be a, you know, put upon person at your workplace to, to get ahead, I just, to me it just represents ugly. So that's why I'm calling it a worse fashion movie. However, it's one of my favorite movies, so go figure. Don't come for me. My best fashion movies. Let's see. Okay, let's start at number five. We're going to. So this is best. Coming in at number five, we have Zoolander. So just like I have Zoolander number two on my worst, I have Zoolander on my best because it's funny af. It's incredible characterization by Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson. I love that it, it sort of focused on the male side of modeling, which I think was, was a really smart choice and bringing into focus all of these crazy over the top characters when it becomes parody and just so overblown. There's something about it that just works. And Zoolander worked at that time. Coming in at number four, best fashion movies. The women 19, George Cuker Cukors, directed, Starring Norma Shearer, Joan Crawford and Rosalind Russell. The reason I'm putting this on my best is because the movie's in black and white. And there's one sequence and those of you who know, you know, there's one sequence that's a fashion show that is in Technicolor beyond. And it's got that wizard of Oz feeling of, you know, the whole thing's in black and white and then it becomes Technicolor. And that only exists for the fashion show. And the clothes are. I'm not sure if it's Adrian. It's definitely Adrian adjacent. So forgive me if I'm not getting the costume designer correct.
But it is just fun. Phenomenal. And even in the black and white moments, the clothes are right for the characters and everything is on point. So that is number four. Coming in at number three, best fashion movies. Mrs. Harris goes to Paris. This is a recent one, 2022, starring Leslie Manville, who I believe was nominated for an Academy Award for her playing a sort of housemaid in London who dreams of owning a Christian Dior dress and goes to Paris to indeed make that dream come true. And within that leaves a path of just love and fun and excitement, not only in the house of Dior, but for herself. And it's just beautiful. It's lovingly photographed. And fashion is definitely the main point. Coming in at number two. This is not a movie per se. It's more of a documentary, I think. A docu series. Kingdom of Dreams. This is about Galliano and McQueen, based on a lot of. It's based on Gods and Kings, the book by Dana Thomas. It is a fascinating real life story of what luxury fashion was, what it became, how it became what it is today. A lot of behind the scenes focusing on kering and LVMH and Pinot and Iron O and just so many things about 90s fashion. It is absolutely fascinating and you can see the rise and fall of so much of what we're we're dealing with today and the legacy of what we're dealing with today. So that's number two. Number one. This is the number one fashion movie for me. And again, there's a million. But I am Putting Unzipped, the 1995 documentary by Douglas Keefe about Isaac Mizrahi staging his show and what the torture and the torment and the fun of what that process is like. Is captures 90s fashion at its best. With Naomi and Linda and Kate Moss and Christy, all of the models. What Isaac goes through, it should be. I think it probably is on everybody's top 10 list. If it's not, I would be shocked. But I think it is so unzipped. My number one fashion movie. Now it is time to keep the fashion going and introduce my guest for the pod. And as I said, this is a Fashion Week heavy episode. So here we go. She has an uncanny ability to transform in front of the camera. She is a Canadian supermodel. Although she might disagree with that. She's an entrepreneur. She would not disagree with that. And she's an advocate for the industry.
Her businesses include Coco Rocha Model Camp. She is the co owner of Nomad Management, a talent and model agency. And she also has an upcoming clothing line. She's going to talk a little bit about that. She's appeared on countless covers, including a ton of Vogues, id, Elle's Bazaars, so many more. My guest today is the fabulous Coco Rocha. Stay tuned.
Coco, thank you so much for popping on. How are you?
[00:11:58] Speaker A: I'm good. How are you?
[00:12:00] Speaker B: I'm so happy to see you. First of all, there's a lot of history that we have that you don't even know, but we're going to get into it.
[00:12:06] Speaker A: I'm so scared. Are we good?
[00:12:08] Speaker B: It's all good. So it's interesting because obviously I've worked with models pretty much my entire career and there's such a fascination with models. There always has been. And certainly we can talk about the trajectory of the supermodel and all of those things. But the one thing that I've noticed is people love hearing about how a model is discovered. So talk us through how that happened for you.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: Right? So just so clarification. Never thought I'd be a model. Didn't even know this was sort of like a place where you could actually college. I'm from Canada. I was an Irish dancer at that time, probably for 10 years. And so that was my life. And if you don't know what Irish dancing is, is river dance.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Right?
[00:12:50] Speaker A: I mean, clearly I was the coolest kid in school, if that's what I was doing. Showing up in curlers and wigs at age 10.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: Is it Michael? Michael Flat. Flattery flowered, right.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: Flatly. Michael Flatley. That's how I saw it. I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be him one day.
Anyways. I Was at a dance competition, and this scout, but I didn't know he was a scout at the time. Charles Stewart had said, have you ever thought of modeling? I was 14, and I thought he was a predator, to be honest, because to me, you know, 14 years old at an Irish dance competition, never did, I think I didn't have any, like, body shaming experiences at that time. I was just like, but I'm 14 and I'm really tall and I'm young. Clearly, you're.
You're looking at me the wrong reasons. But I found out his daughter danced, hence why he was at that dance competition. And fast forward, he finally persuaded my mom to just take some photos. And, oh, my goodness, I could share those photos with you, you would die. I mean, I went to a Mac. You remember Mac? I went to a counter, got my makeup done. I had just done streaks of the 2000s streaks, and walked into that studio thinking, that's what a model should look like. So my beginnings are humble. Humble beginnings.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Listen, I love it. I mean, and this is such a great story because another supermodel was born in Canada, which was Linda Evangelista, as we know.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Who did want to be a model her entire life. Who. She really just, you know, grew up knowing about fashion, wanting to be part of that. When did you sort of realize that fashion actually was a thing? And do you remember some of those early images?
[00:14:25] Speaker A: I think it was after finding out that I was going to have an exclusive with this very famous photographer named Steven Meisel.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: What?
[00:14:32] Speaker A: And we. What if people don't know? We call him the model maker. I mean, he helped in Linda Evangelista's career in Naomi Campbell, Lizzie Turlington. He had a hand in super's careers. Not knowing who this man was. Didn't know this industry. I had just heard from everyone that I was around that this was going to change my life if this exclusive actually went through. So I do recall this really strange moment where my mom, we're in front of the model's apartment and she is getting in a taxi to get back to Canada because she had to go to work. And she was pretty much giving me an ultimatum. Get in the taxi and go back to high school and do this thing, or stay here now and this will become your life. She wasn't, like, aggressive. She wasn't frustrated. She was just like, I gotta go to work and you guys come with me or you stay here. And I remember being like, this is the biggest moment. Like, I don't even know how to. I wanted her to Help me. And then she was like, this is actually gonna be a you thing right now. So I still bring that back up a lot where I realized, like, that was the moment where I decided, I'll make this a thing.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Well, I think it's so interesting to hear that because.
And we're going to talk about this in a bit, but so much of your career has been about mentoring other models and it's a passion for you. So it would make sense that you had such a. Almost a very difficult, scary decision to make at a time and how you navigated that. You are completely right. I mean, a Vogue cover with Steven Meisel would change any model's career at that time.
Tell me about that first cover with Stephen.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Yes. So I got the call from my agent saying, you have booked working with Steven Meisel. At the time, he was living in la and so he was really sending off all the models every week to go do these major photo shoots. And I remember my agent just being like, hey, you're getting on this flight, you're paying for it and it's a good opportunity. But I didn't meet him yet. Like, I had already gone to casting to his studio. And the famous Delois, which is his, like, right hand woman, I met her and I guess she approved. So I went straight to a Italian Vogue with. Who was it on that? I think it was Gemma Ward, Lily Donaldson. I can remember those. But Sasha. And I remember my agent just saying, I want you to handshake everyone. I don't care. Just shake everyone's hand and meet everyone. And I remember just shaking everyone's hand. And I. The beginning, I was like, shaking the caterer's hand, shaking the maid to the hotel. I was like, who is everyone? Meanwhile, there was Pat McGrath and her team. It was Guido, it was Stevens.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: I mean, legends, and they were all legends.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: And Edward Enenfall was the stylist at the time. Yes, big legends in a room. But again, no one took offense by this. But I knew no one. I really didn't know who these people were. And I think my beginning is.
Was great for me because I think I would have been nervous, really nervous, knowing, like, these are people that were going to change my life. Instead, I was like, oh, these are lovely people. And, like, they do great, great job. That was the beginnings. And after that photo shoot was when Stephen phoned my agent saying, I'll give her six months, she'll work with me and I'll decide all of her bookings. I will decide even her shows. Amazing for Six months.
And that's when I think my high school fashion sort of schooling began. That's when I really started being like, you should probably pay attention and figure out who these people are.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Well, it was high school and university combined, I'm sure.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: Combined.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Okay, so I'm gonna fast forward, I think, a little bit, because this is when I feel like my coco moment came. Came to be. In 2007, American Vogue dubbed the term the coco moment. Now, I was there.
Can you tell us what the coco moment was? And just walk us through.
[00:18:22] Speaker A: I believe the coco moment that you are spe of was when I Irish danced down Jean Paul Gaultier's Runway. Yes.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: Yay.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: I didn't. What do I. Wait, what surprise. Jean Paul Gaultier asked me. I think I did one of his shows already at that point. And then this time, he said, I'm doing a Scottish show, and I hear you do a Scottish dance. And I was like, excuse me, it's Irish. He's like, it's the same thing. I just want you to go down the Runway, and I want you to dance. What do you think? And I was like, yeah, that's my. That would be my jam. I was like, oh, I don't have any of my shoes here. So he was ordered shoes from Ireland, and no joke, they arrived two hours before the show. And he was like, you're going to do a dance at the beginning, and you're going to do a dance at the end. And it is a moment that is brought up every day of my life, whether in social media, whether it's in interviews, whether it's just someone on the street being like, are you that girl? That. So it's strange because, funny enough, it was not during social media. No one had, like, phones to actually say, like, yeah, that actually happened. So there's like, this one grainy phone and the actual live image from the team. But other than that, you had to been in the room to know if that happened.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: Okay, so I was in the room. We were covering. We were covering the shows for. Excuse me, full frontal fashion. So I was there, and part of that job was to interview people, editors, celebrities, whatever, retailers. After every single person talked about you on the Runway doing the Irish dance, and not so much about the clothes, which I thought, okay, here we have a phenomenon. You touch on something really interesting, because a lot of people credit you with being the first digital supermodel as well. So you really glommed on to social media at an early in its infancy and made it work to your advantage. What were. What did you think social media was? And did you see its potential or were you just having fun?
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Well, I think I was having fun until I was dating a boy who I'm. I'm married to 15 years of marriage, but I was dating James, and he noticed I was. I had a blog spot. So, like, a blog and MySpace. And he was like, well, use this to your advantage. Like, there must be more to this. And I remember getting such backlash from who I don't even remember, but just remember people around me being like, this is a faux pas. Whatever you're doing, you're watering down the craft, the career, so stop it or I won't work with you. I won't book you. And this outside guy, you know, boyfriend, who is not part of this industry at the time yet, was like, but I can't see the problem. This seems like where our world is going. And so you just sharing little things. It wasn't like I was sharing secrets. I was sharing little things would just almost open the door to people being like, wow, I have backstage, like you guys were doing, but, like, now on this new space. So I kept going. And, yeah, I got some people saying, well, we're not backing you up any further. This is enough. And other people clearly are like, this is the future. So look where we are now. And everyone and their cat has social media. But at the time, it was just playing to see where we're going. And ever since that moment when we have these other moments in this industry or any. Where we go, should I jump on the train? Should I, you know, play an experiment with AI? Should I play with whatever? My answer is always yes, because it's gonna happen just like this moment we learned in social media. And it could be good, it could be bad, but we need to at least be aware of it. And I think that's where we came from at that point.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: Okay, so I think what you really did in those days was you cracked the door on an industry that really didn't like that door to be cracked. You know, it wasn't. And still, to some degree, isn't the most inclusive industry.
And it sort of built itself on this, like, you can look, but you can't come in kind of thing. So you. You did the right thing. And again, like fashion, it's a lemming business. Everybody followed, and it really. You really set the tone for what models have to do today. So congratulations on that.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: Okay, now, this is another moment that I love for. For you. In 2014, you published Study of a Pose. A 2000 page encyclopedia of poses with Stephen Sebring. Talk us throughout that book and why that book actually is a reference book for so many models today.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. Well, I go back a little bit. I was on a TV show as just a judge, a part taker on America's Next Top Model, and Tyra dubbed me the queen of pose. And from that moment, yes, in the industry and out of the industry, people like, she's known for posing. And I find that funny because isn't that our job? But needless to say, Steven Sebring and I, we had already been playing around doing other sort of projects. And with my husband, we were like, let's finally make something where it's kind of encyclopedia esque. It's the place where everyone goes for reference. So we decided with that title of Queen of Poes and with Stephen, we were going to create this huge book of a thousand different poses and just a number and just a pose. And funny enough, how many illustrators, how many artists.
Artists would draw on top of it, would sketch in it, like use it as we wanted it to. And of course, models look at it with such like, I'm going to copy that.
I think it was just to, you know, something to say, like, hey, look, I am an authority in this field and I thought it would be really a beautiful thing to have. And two, we also created a digital version where the photo you saw from the book was actually camera one. And we did 100 cameras around us. So the digital book, you could actually turn the whole thing. So for sculptures, sculpturists could actually see the whole thing without having someone in the room with them. But it was too ahead of its time. Can you believe it? 2014, the whole amount of information of that one book would take up a whole phone.
[00:24:27] Speaker B: Right.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: So a lot of people wouldn't download that. But we thought we wanted to always be the head of everything. That was really why we created it. But in the end, people wanted a book. They just wanted to have that thing that they can look through and take reference from.
[00:24:40] Speaker B: Well, I love it. Honestly. I'm sure AI is probably downloading it all now and like, you know, so check into that, James.
Okay, so you brought up something interesting. America's Next Top Model. You also did your own sort of extended. Well, it's a different take. Take on it, but it was called the Face, hosted by Nigel Barker with Naomi Campbell, yourself and ANV as Carolina. Carolina Korkova.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: And V was next season.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Got it, Got it. Okay, so you did it with Carolina Korkova. Okay, yes, that does make sense. Now, part of that was, you know, being a mentor. And Coco, you don't know this, but what I do on this podcast is I ask a colleague of yours, a friend. Friend, someone you know in the industry to ask you a question. So this is. Okay, you look scared.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: Why am I giggling?
[00:25:35] Speaker B: You look scared. Okay, so first of all, I'll kind of read what this person says about you, and then I'll ask the question. Okay.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: So this is from somebody you know. Coco is absolutely wonderful. She's charming, delightful, genuinely down to earth. I feel so lucky that both she and James, your husband, have become real friends through our work together. Now, here's the question. One thing I admire about Coco is how clear she is about her boundaries and what she's comfortable with. I'm curious, are there any jobs you've passed on earlier in your career that you might approach differently today? This is coming from your friend Nigel Barker.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: I was like, is that Christian Siriano or Nigel Barker that's writing that? Yes, there have been plenty of. Of jobs that, you know, the paycheck was so good, but unfortunately, it just didn't go with what I would call my compass, my moral and value compass. And so I would decline. And some people, you know, they say, well, there's always a number you would. Someone's always going to, like, give up for that number. And I've. I would proudly say I haven't. I haven't given up just because I hear a really good number. But I've lost a lot of opportunities or money, jobs based off of, you know, this thing that's very important to me. On the flip side, though, I will say it is lovely to hear models say, or just anyone in the industry going, it has been so lovely to watch you do it your way, which in our generation, we were told plenty of times, you're going to do it their way or just get out, step out of the way. And for them to come to me and from different generations, not just younger, but older, to hear them say, like, how fantastic it is, Koko, how proud they are, how they only wish they could have done the same thing, just makes me really glad that I've been able to hold that position. And I train my models at model camp, that you're allowed to have different paths. We do not have to have the same lane. And at the same time, you're allowed to pick and choose during your journey. So am I allowed to decide? At one point, I, I would do Something or I wouldn't do something for sure. But at this point in this journey, I've been trying to maintain the same sort of message, because to be honest, we're in an industry where people are selling message after message, and if they don't believe what you're selling them, they're not coming to you. So I've really thought of that as well. Like to make sure my message is clear.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: Well, it's a fantastic message, and I thank you. Now, I don't think you can see this, but I am wearing.
[00:28:10] Speaker A: I see it. I saw. Like, why do I know that? Yes.
[00:28:13] Speaker B: Okay, so I'm wearing one of your covers. Don't worry, I'm not selling it. I'm not making money. But I love this cover, and I chose it for a T shirt because I do this method interviewing. On the COVID it says, coco Rocha, your name. Pushing back when necessary and going to extremes to get the shot. That is a mantra that probably you still live by. Do you still go to extremes to get the shot?
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we're inundated of visuals every day. What makes someone say, like, I need to look at this and stare at it. There's that part. And my sec. My. Well, more importantly to me is when I go into a room full of very creative people. And yes, it could just be me and the photographer or my largest team. I don't know why, but there was 250 people on that set, and they all have a job. And I want them to look at me and the end result and be like, oh, my goodness, I can't wait to put my name on this. I can't wait for this to come out. I can't wait for the world to see it. And so to me, it's. It's that as well. It's a lot of new models come into the industry and just think that modeling is for them, that it's a very personal thing. And for me, it has always been. This is a team sport. And if my. If the team is happy with the results, and I'm. I'm so happy. Even if I don't think that's the best photo, if they really are, like, genuinely. We got it. She did it. Thank you. I think, like, we did it as a team. So that's why I think that what they say on the COVID is true still to this day, that I want. I will push myself and push the team so that we're not just one more photo. We're a photo that people will look at, make T Shirts, Put it in a museum and actually think about, you know, what they're looking at.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: Love it. Love it. Okay, so let's talk about Coco Rocha Model Camp, because I think it's such a fabulous thing that you are doing. And just tell us a little bit about the why you're doing that and what has been the unexpected, you know, result of it.
[00:30:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you probably have interviewed tons of models to realize that most of us were trained by sink or swim method. So you're thrown into a room and figure it out. And if you don't, well, you know what? There's another model coming. And if she doesn't get it, well, there's another one coming. And I think that's such a strange way of doing business, because if you found someone that's pretty good and all they need is a little help here, and there are tweaks, you might actually, as a team, make some money. You might actually make an empire. This idea was like, well, they're also replaceable. And maybe because my generation was the backlash to the supermodels, it was supposed to be replaceable. And I thought, well, if this is what I'm doing, I need to do it well. And I didn't have training. So when I started to model more and more and doing better jobs, if you call it, my agents would call me in and train some new models and say, can you do a Runway class? Can you do a. I love this. A pose class. Never heard of that in my life. But I started creating this thing called pose class. But then they would say, can you sit down with the models and tell them how, you know, Paris fashion it will be? Or talk about body dysmorphia and talk about, like, you know, not loving yourself? And it almost became this, like, class within these agencies. And so I thought, you know, I opened up my own modeling agency called Nomad, and the other agencies weren't calling for education much anymore. And I thought, well, instead of it just being focused to the top five agencies of New York, why don't I open it to all models around the world, whether signed, you know, or freelance? But if they really believed they wanted this for their future, then come to a place where I can actually give you some tools versus sink or swim. And we are now on Camp 155. I believe we're coming up to 6,000 models. We've had thousands of submissions, and we do it every three weeks. So it is like, that is our fourth baby. I have three actual children, and the fourth one is that camp because it is important to us that we are giving, you know, giving them what they need, the tools. And also just to. I don't know, the. The lasting thing for most of these models is just learning how to be confident. Just be proud of what you are doing and go out there and fully commit to it.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: Well, you meant. You mentioned that you have three children. How comfortable would you be if one of them said, I want to be a model?
[00:32:41] Speaker A: Yeah, do you want to do what your mom and dad does? Is kind of my answer to that always.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: That's a great answer.
[00:32:47] Speaker A: However, our old.
She's 10 and now clearly having some opinions of what she'd like to do. The stage she loves. And applause. Clearly, she's her mom's daughter. She likes that feeling of, like, performing. But it's interesting how modeling to them is still kind of like, what exactly is it intended for? Because I talk such a big talk about, like, we love ourselves. We don't talk badly about other people. Beauty doesn't, you know, in that sense, it doesn't matter. It's you. I'm there creating something. And so they're like, that's all cool. But the industry, it sounds like it's the opposite of what you're saying. And so I think there's this, like, you know, not like, I wouldn't want to do it for what the other people do it for. I want to do it like you do it. And I always have a hard time being like, well, if this is something they would want to do, let's use Kai, for example.
[00:33:42] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Cindy Crawford's daughter. She's so good at modeling, but I bet you she hears constantly, oh, you remind me of mom. And how's mom? And you look like mom, and you're almost like your mom.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Right?
[00:33:52] Speaker A: That must be such a mind game, like doing something so well on your own. But then to hear this constantly must be. She's a strong girl and she has done this all by herself. But that's what I worry that they will hear things like, queen of pose, you're the baby of pose, or you're not quite like her. And I. That's a lot of pressure. So I hope they have their own things, but I also hope it's in the arts because James, his background is murals and painting, and we love that world. But, yeah, don't ask mom help for math or science. You're not going to be able to do that. But other than that, I'm happy for them to do anything so long as they do their best.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: I love that. Listen, don't ask me about math, science, or politics. I'm not going there. So Nigel and I were talking about.
About supermodels, and in my opinion, a supermodel really is about longevity. How would you describe what a supermodel is, if you can?
[00:34:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I. You know, before the nepo babies came, I said, there is never going to be another era of supermodels. I think our generation were top models, and I think before that, we're supermodels now. Do people call me a super? I'm like, thank you so much. That is lovely. But I do not declare it, because I really thought of it as an error. And what made it that error was people were obsessing over these women, who they were dating, what they were wearing, like a celebrity. You weren't going to call us celebrities. You would call them supermodels. And then our generation came, and it was like, well, we're less interested about who you're dating and what you're wearing and eating, but we're still fascinated. So I declare that the top models. And then I think, again, we came back to a time where we called it nepo babies or just like, people were so fascinated of these young girls that they'd already seen for a little while in their lives, but now they've transitioned into modeling, and what did we care about again? We cared about who they were dating, what they were wearing, everything about them. And that felt very similar to the supermodel era. So maybe longevity is part of it. I think there's longevity in models that work in catalog that you never knew their. Their faces or names. You know what I mean? So I think it's just a little bit more than longevity, but also, like, the fascination of the actual model.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: I agree 100%. Part of that, when I say longevity, I mean also, you do want to check in. You do want to know what they're doing, and you are also doing something which is really interesting. You're working with some friends of mine, and you are producing a clothing line. So I reached out to the wonderful people at Excel, and I said, listen, I have Coco coming on the pod. Can we talk about the clothing line? And they were like, yes, please. She's lovely. She's amazing. Please do. So tell us a little bit about the clothing line without giving too much away.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: Yes, yes. That's the hard part, right? Like, as models, we're like, we know a lot of stuff, and we can't tell you anything until it's actually Published or produced. But I have to say, the people at Excel, I'm so excited to work with them.
Ken, who is the head of the Halston art director, he has been, like, holding hands and showing and creating with me, which has been lovely because I've seen. Seen him on such a different way where he would watch the shows. And now doing this together, it's going to be.
I am. How do I say this without too much. It's going to take everything that I've learned from the industry. And just like you've seen me talk about how models and how we need to, you know, like, think of ourselves differently and use different techniques. I'd like to think the same. When it comes to this brand. It's not necessarily going to be the traditional. It's not necessarily going to be sold exactly the way everyone else is sees things. But how can we just, like, try new things, try different ideas? Because what's the point in selling you one more blouse if you have 50 in your closet? So we are trying to think of different fascinating ways and also for us to be excited about it, to put our name to it. So I think that's all I can tell you.
[00:37:41] Speaker B: I am so excited, and thank you, because the excitement is there and I can't wait. We're also going to do something fun together. In a couple of months, you and I are going on the Transatlantic Fashion Fashion Week for Cunard. I have done this before. Do you have?
[00:37:58] Speaker A: Have you? I was just gonna ask you, do.
[00:38:00] Speaker B: You have any questions for me? And then what are you excited about?
[00:38:03] Speaker A: Okay. In my mind, I'm thinking because Christian Sirianna is gonna be there. We're gonna be doing some fun stuff. Bob Mackie's gonna be there.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:38:11] Speaker A: I feel like I'm supposed to wake up at like, seven in the morning in full glam and I'm seeing My Fair lady when she was at the horse race. Like, we're all. And we're all walking around like that. But then someone told me that's not quite how it works. But I thought, shouldn't it. Shouldn't we be that over the top since we're all on a boat together?
So that's my expectation. 1. Am I wrong?
[00:38:35] Speaker B: You're not wrong. I mean, the time I did it was with Stephen Jones and a couple of other people. And yes, we dressed to the nines. And Cunard is elegant and fun. I think what's going to be really fun is seeing you modeling on a ship with Christian. Your collaboration is legendary. And also you're going to be doing a little bit of a model camp yourself.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: Are you coming?
[00:38:59] Speaker B: Of course I'm coming. I'm kind of every class, I'm organizing the whole thing. So I'm going to be introducing everybody. I'm going to be walking people through what I will say, Coco. And I think you're going to appreciate this. Customers, the people that do this, the people that take the voyage are so ravenously curious. There's an intellectual, Intellectual sort of appetite for everything that. That, you know, we do. So you're gonna get a lot of questions. You're going to meet people that you. You really are going to change their lives because they're entering into something they. They don't know about, but they have the fascination.
[00:39:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm bringing literally the whole family. So, like, I'm bringing the kids, the grandmas, of course. James, my husband, will be there. And I was like. Somebody said to me, like, well, isn't that kind of for, like, a mature audience? I was like, no, Bob Mackie's having a sit down. I'm making my kids sit front row listening to the one and only Christian Sienna, having, like, an illustrating class.
This is the best school ever.
[00:40:00] Speaker B: Okay, so you mentioned you're bringing the kids, the grandmother, your husband, all of it. What you might not know is you can also. And I might be stepping out of line, but you can bring your dog as well. It is.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: I am not. Can you see him walking by? Yes.
[00:40:14] Speaker B: It's a beast.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: That's not a human front.
[00:40:17] Speaker B: That is a beast. That is a sasquatch. But you can't. It's the only transit. Well, it's the only transatlantic crossing. But you can bring your. Your pet, and at a certain point of the day, and you can bring your kids to this. They bring out the pets and do a pet parade and it's so cute.
[00:40:32] Speaker A: So cute. But no, you're staying here, sir. That's not happening. But good to know for next time.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: Exactly. Coco, thank you so, so much. I'm.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: Looking forward to traveling with you and getting to sit down and talk with you in person. And thank you much for years of legendary catwalks and covers and editorials, but more so, what you do for the industry at large, it's. It's really special and important. So thank you.
[00:41:00] Speaker A: Thank you. Appreciate it.
[00:41:02] Speaker B: All right, we'll talk soon.
[00:41:02] Speaker A: Coffee on the ocean.
[00:41:03] Speaker B: Yes, bye.
